Tuesday, May 29, 2012

PA Singers Denying Israel's Existence

Nadene Goldfoot
What are the chances of the Palestinians to ever recognize Israel as a legal state in their midst?  Very little.  With Hamas having a doctrine similar to the Muslim Brotherhood saying that they do not recognize Israel and Fatah joining up with Hamas, it looks like it'll never happen.

There was a time when Fatah's PA said they did recognize Israel's right to exist, but they have changed their policy several times.  In a recent program where PA officials along with Mahmoud Abbas sat and listened to a presentation that has been going on for 27 times in the past year.  In it "The Palestinian singer declares that "my land" and "our coast" span from Rosh Hanikra in Israel's north to Rafah in the Gaza Strip in the south, and from Haifa on Israel's western coast to Beit Shean on Israel's eastern border.

So what they're doing is declaring that all of Israel is theirs.  They're pretty much "in your face" about it.  This is the one condition that Israel has said that is so important.  If they can't accept Israel, how can Israel accept a Palestinian state next door to them who will have the means by which to shell them even further?  The situation is ridiculous to keep insisting upon.  .

Mark Langfan, New York attorney has done a marvelous job of showing a map of Israel with overlays showing just what could happen if it ever came about.  He has presented Israel's case before the Knesset and the American Congress to show visually what many cannot conceive of happening.  http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=n9gQUVuEZjQ 
http://palwatch.org/main.aspx?fi=709&fld_id=709&doc_id=4775
http://www.palwatch.org/main.aspx?fi=157&doc_id=6914 from Itamar Marcus, Nan Jacques Zilberdik , PA TV song denying Israel's existence

Turkey's Bellicose Attitude Towards Israel

Nadene Goldfoot
Instead of doing things to get back into a peaceful state with Israel, Turkey has done the opposite.  An Istanbul court allowed  an indictment Monday against 4 Israeli military men for involvement in the raid on their Turkish boat that was breaching Israel's naval blockade of Gaza back in May 2010.  They were breaking the law knowing full well what Israel would be doing and they're suing.

Israel's soldiers had to act in self defense.  They did not board the ship with intentions to kill people aboard, only to check out what they were carrying to make sure it was not arms for the Palestinians.  Even a UN report since then has found that Israel's naval blockade was legal and appropriate.

What had happened was that on May 31, 2010 (note the date) the Turkish boat, Mavi Marmar with 40 activists entered the waters at their own risk. They were part of a fleet of 6 boats.   They had among them some very hardcore armed men who used iron bars and knives against the 13 Israeli naval commandos.  The outcome was that 9 Turks were killed some others were wounded.  10 of the 13 commandos were injured seriously in the fracas.  The other boats were peaceful, allowed the checking and that was it.

Erdogan has decided to kill the relationship between Israel and Turkey anyway using this as an excuse. They took on this bellicose attitude by sending out the ship in the first place knowing it would cause a problem.   The strange thing is that his stance has not ended the trade going on between the two countries amounting to nearly $4 billion a year.  Diplomats are frozen out from breaking bread with each other but not the merchants.

Reference:  New York Times via daily alert.: Turkish court Indicts 4 Israeli Military Leaders by Isabel Kershner
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaza_flotilla_raid


Friday, May 25, 2012

Turkey's Opportunistic Plan Involving Israel



Nadene Goldfoot
Turkey, which was once the Ottoman Empire, had been friends with Israel, but since the growth of the Muslim Brotherhood has been leaning towards their brothers.  Their Prime Minister,  Recep Tayyip Erdogan,  told former US secretary of state Henry Kissinger that he planned to burn bridges with Israel to get in better favor with the Islamic world but didn't reveal when that would happen.  Their Turkish newspaper also revealed  that Turkey doesn't get along with Israel and the United States.

This is a sad note because Turkey has been the first place Israelis head for who are on vacation.  They've made good tourists.  Turkey was the first Muslim majority country to recognize Israel in March 1949.  You have to give them credit.  At that time it must have been a hard decision to follow the lead of the USA.  The USA has many Turkish Jews who immigrated here and who might be interested in their family roots on vacation as well.  It has that aura of the mystique that is so alluring and is fairly close by.

The opportunity came by with the flotilla to Gaza of May 2010  in which 9 Turkish citizens on the ship were killed after attacking the IDF commandos who were trying to board it.  Israel was blamed, but Erdogan took advantage of the event quickly by cutting ties with both Israel and the USA and to expand their power.

All this came out in the wash with wikileaks.  It was in a leaked email from George Friedman, head of Stratfor, a security -analysis company.  I wonder what Kissinger did with this detail.  Though Jewish, he hasn't been known for any favors towards Israel.  You have to watch out for these fair-weather friends in politics.  Easy come-easy go.

However, trade is still an essential ingredient for two countries to make up from their differences.  This is still needed and is happening.  Erdogan demanded that Netanyahu apologize for the death of his civilians on board the fatal Marmara and the Knesset is against doing so as they were only protecting their lives and were under attack themselves. As I remember, Erdogan was instrumental in their participation, too.  Maybe it was part of his basic scheme uncovered here.   Oh where is Solomon when you need him?  We need a higher most impartial court to settle this one.  It's so similar to Israel asking for recognition from the Palestinians and not getting it.

http://www.timesofisrael.com/wikileaks-turkey-wanted-to-burn-bridges-with-israel
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel%E2%80%93Turkey_relations
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/alon-benmeir/turkey-and-israel-now-is_b_1532767.html


Thursday, May 17, 2012

Knesset Shook Up: Kadima and Likud Join Hands in Israel

Nadene Goldfoot
It didn't take long for Kadima (to go forward)  to join up with Likud over the weekend to form a national unity government in Israel.  Elections will come about in 2013.  Mofaz, former IDF chief of staff and Defense Minister had been  opposed to Netanyahu.  He has replaced Tzippi Livni as head of Kadima.

Mofaz and Netanyahu are both concerned about their domestic issues such as a law excusing  the ultra-Orthodox to serve in military service.  If they introduce a universal draft, he will not lose too many votes for doing so as he'll have the 28 members of the Knesset of Kadima instead to work with.

They also plan on rejuvenating talks with the PA and promote social justice.  The Iranian threat to national security is the biggest issue facing them which could be the impetus to form a new government.  Both leaders seem to be in full agreement on "how to deal with the Iranian threat".

It was Yuval Diskin, former Shin Bet (Israel Security Agency) chief and Meir Dagan, former head of Mossad, who are wary of Israel going alone to attack Iran by hitting their atomic weapon buildings.  So we have two slightly opposing opinions over the issue.  Ideally, if it must be done, they would like the USA to also participate.  After all, it is both of us that are threatened by Iran's atomic warfare plans.  If Israel goes down, the USA is next in line.

The window of opportunity is closing but the problem seems to be bigger than a little nation can tackle alone, like they have previously.    Now Netanyahu has the biggest coalition ever behind him.  I have no doubt that they will weigh this decision carefully.  They've been giving the world governments time to do their thing peacefully and stop the advance of Iran's maniacal mission.

Reference:  gerardrobins@sbcglobal.net: Israel's New National Unity government and the Iran Question by Yaakov Lappin 

Sunday, May 13, 2012

Fences That Save Lives

Nadene Goldfoot                                                               

Like the poet, Robert Frost said, "Good fences make good neighbors."  Israel has been in the doghouse for having built fences, however.  There is an excellent reason for building them that other countries also in the act of building do not have.  It's to save the lives of Israelis from the many radicals that intend to kill them.  Not many countries have this reason for building their fences.  The "Good Neighbor Fence" between Israel and Lebanon has been there doing it's job.  I drove to it several times between 1980 and 1985.  That's when Major Hadad, head of the Christian militia of Lebanon and Israel were good friends and he helped to patrol the border.  His R &R time was spent in our army hospital many a time.
                                                                           
The United States is building fences along the border of Mexico to keep out illegal immigrants who have been taking advantage of the ease in gaining entrance.  There is no other way to prevent incursions into Israel other than shooting to kill.  This is a far better way.  I'm sure other countries would use death, it's so much cheaper.

There are checkpoints in Israel along the fences, some of which are cement.  Many explosive belts from suicide bombers were found.  This has cut down the attacks and the population feels much safer.  Usually schools have been a goal of these attackers.  They've had no hang-ups in who they kill inside Israel.
                                                                               
Jews actually have bad memories of being really fenced in, which the Palestinians are not.  The fences are not locking them in, just keeping the path closest to citizens blocked so it's not so easy to kill them.  Back in  Italy in about 1179 the Vatican issued the edict to keep Jews in ghettos, and they really were locked in at night.  Thus, this turned out to be the beginning of keeping us in one place.  If it wasn't for our strict kosher laws of cleanliness, we would have died out long ago.  Russia had the same idea which resulted to keeping Jews in "the Pale of Settlement."  We weren't allowed inside Russia proper without special conditions accompanied by special passes.  We never on any occasion wanted access to the rest of the world like other people had with the idea of killing anyone.  It was just normal reasons like business, touring, buying, and visiting that Jews would have liked to be able to do that was denied to them.
                                                                             
Israel border that is saving their lives;
up to keep out Palestinian terrorists
So don't lecture us on not treating people fairly!  Our whole religion involves such things.  We don't dwell on what happens to us when we are dead but when we are alive. Judaism is a religion of Life, L'Chaim!   The old adage, we'll treat you fairly and you treat us fairly  still exists.  The one thing we won't do is get down to the level of our adversaries, though.


Resource: http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4227342,00.html
http://meria.idc.ac.il/journal/2000/issue3/jv4n3a2.html

Thursday, May 10, 2012

King David Objects From Judah Revealed

Nadene Goldfoot
Imagine finding objects from the time of King David of Judah!  That's what's happened to Archaeology Prof. Yosef Garfinkel with the Institute of Archaeology at the Hebrew University of Jerusalem.  They had digs at Khirbet Qeiyafa, which was a fortified city in Judah next to the Valley of Elah only 30 km from Jerusalem.  It lay near the Philistine city of Gath, which was the home of the giant, Goliath.  The city of Khirbet Qeiafa  was in existence between 1020 BCE to 980 BCE and had been violently destroyed.   They found pottery, stone and metal tools and many art and cult objects there.

In their finds were 3 large rooms that had been used as cultic shrines, dating the period they were from.  They were from before Solomon's Temple by 30 to 40 years. The tribes of Judah and most of Benjamin and Simeon lived in Judah.

King David of Israel (1000 BCE-960 BCE) was the youngest son of Jesse and was born in Bethlehem.  He had become the armor-bearer to King Saul, our first king and probably because of this had become best friends with Jonathan, the son of Saul.  He became a good fighter of the Philistines, and then married Saul's daughter, Michal.   He was buried in Jerusalem.

All this can be found in a new book out, "Footsteps of King David in the in the Valley of Elah", published by Yedioth Ahronoth.

Hebrew University, started in 1918 by Albert Einstein, Sigmund Freud, Martin Buber and Chaim Weizmann, was able to open in 1925.  It has been ranked 12th worldwide in biotechnology patent filings and commercial development.  Students from 65 countries have attended.

Resource: http://www.mfa.gov.il/MFA/History/Early+History+-+Archaeology/Cultic_shrines_time_King_David_8-May-2012.htm?DisplayMode=print

Tuesday, May 08, 2012

Abbas's Green Light for Terrorists

Nadene Goldfoot
I've always thought that that it was beshert that Fatah and Hamas could not agree on ruling in Gaza as both want the power. Both have security forces and would have to merge them, another problem.   David Meir-Levi gives us an update as to what is happening with all of Israel's neighbors and what they are doing.  It's quite alarming.  I'll just remark on Hamas and Fatah.  Be sure to read his insight.

Abbas's Fatah group who live in  Judea-Samaria or West Bank, formerly the PLO of Arafat's years, had been cooperating with Israel for the past 6 years fairly well, but now that they are talking about melding in with the terrorists of Hamas, are going bonkers.  Their PA police have decided not to cooperate and work with the IDF to prevent terrorism.  They are not arresting known terrorists there anymore.  Abbas has even resurrected "Arafat's old Palestinian revolving door policy for jailed terrorists"  Naturally, terrorists see this as the nod to resume their terrorism against Israel.

Abbas has been ruling illegally for 3 years with a term that expired in January 2009.  Arafat pulled the same trick.  He ruled unconstitutionally from 2000 to 2004 when he died from AIDS.  He calls himself a president, but acts like a tyrant in this way.

Abbas and Mesha'al met last year and again last week on the 2nd of May.  They seems to only connect when plotting to attack Israel, so that's what they may have been doing.  What a reason to unify!  Death of their neighbors.

Hamas, who had kicked Abbas out of Gaza in 2006, has refused to go along with Iran and support Bashar al-Assad of Syria and to not cooperate with their Muslim Brotherhood in Syria. This made Iran angry and they cut back on funding Hamas.  Hamas has also been losing their clout with other terrorists who are doing their own thing and not taking Hamas's orders. For instance, they have new mobile self-propelled rocket launchers smuggled in from Libya that they use against Israel.

Israel finds that  Fatah and Hamas are only two of many groups to cause concern lately.  The whole neighborhood is about to catch on fire, it seems.  This has caused Israel to raise their level of terror alerts and as usual, are prepared to protect their citizens from attack wherever it may come from.  We're all praying that it does not turn into a horrible nuclear war.  The Winds of War are starting to blow again, and I think the Arab Spring was the start of it all.  .

Resource:  frontpagemag.com/2012/05/08/winds-of-war/print
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fatah%E2%80%93Hamas_conflict

Monday, May 07, 2012

The Very Cradle of Jewish Civilization: Judea and Samaria

Nadene Goldfoot
Judea and Samaria were the cradle of Jewish civilization and had an unfailing Jewish presence until the 1948 War when the many people living there were killed and about 10,000 survivors  were expelled by the Jordanians, who held rule illegally until the 1967 War with Israel.  Jordan  renamed the two states "West Bank."  , being they lay on the west side of the Jordan River.

The Kingdom of Judah, renamed Judea by the Romans,  had existed in 933 BCE when Eretz Yisrael was divided after King Solomon had died.  It was the southerly of the two.  The tribe of Judah and parts of Benjamin and Simeon lived there.  It was the poor and less important Kingdom with no access to the sea.  It did contain Jerusalem and the Temple, however and was able to keep Mosaic monotheism in a pure form.  Solomon's son, Rehoboam took over as King of Judah.  Samaria had been the capital of the northern kingdom of Israel, founded in 880 BCE by King Omri.  He was king of Israel from 887 to 876 BCE.  Omri had been Elah's general and directed the operations against the Philistine city of Gibbethon.  He was the founder of a dynasty.

The British actually were the last legal sovereign authority for Judea and Samaria.  Jordan and  had illegally held them  as well as Egypt illegally holding Gaza Strip between 1948 and 1967.  They remain unallocated portions of the British Mandate since no government formally replaced the Mandate's jurisdiction.  It's guidelines called for Jews to settle the area.  That's what they did from 1967 on.

Arabs wanted to hold onto these lands to attack Israel.  They kept launching attacks against Israel from the "Territories'" strategic locations.  UN Resolution 242 had planned for bilateral negotiations that would give Israel more secure borders and lead to greater regional stability.  When Israel pulled out of Gaza for the sake of making peace, the Arabs used it as a closer place to shoot their rockets, missiles and mortars into southern Israel.

Until 1988, the PLO continued to call for a Palestinian state to REPLACE Israel, not for a a separate state that would exist alongside it.  They still will not recognize Israel and the Muslim Brotherhood continues to push with their goal of replacement, not peace and coexistence.

80% of the Israeli settlers in Judea and Samaria live in communities close to the Green Line, which are suburbs of Jerusalem and Tel Aviv.  The Jews have a right to settle the land.  It is a legal right assured by treaty and specifically protected by Article 80 of the U.N. Charter...."the Jewish right of settlement in the area is equivalent in every way to the right of the existing Palestinian population to live there" says Eugene Rostow, former U.S. Under Secretary of State, 1990.

Israelis had built communities after 1967 in undeveloped, uninhabited areas. Arabs have legitimate claims to ownership over some of the land.  Many are longtime inhabitants who felt they have no political rights and self-determination.  Israel  disputes their territorial claims and also has even stronger claims to the land.

Israel was forced to continue having a presence in Gaza and the West Bank from 1967 to 1993 because no Palestinian leader stepped up as a peace partner.  Blame International law and custom that required Israel to be the administrators.  They're just obeying the laws.  .  From 1993 to 2007 Israel gradually ended the "Occupation."  by turning civilian administration over to the newly created Palestininan Authority (PA) in 1994.

Did anyone complain when the Jordanians expelled our 10,000 Jews who were living there?  Why is it that the Jews get the short end of every stick?

Resource:  Israel 101 from StandWithUs
The New Standard Jewish Encyclopedia

Muslim Brotherhood Instigating End of Peace: Israel and Jordan

Nadene Goldfoot
The Muslim Brotherhood is carrying out it's goals from their charter.  They are disrupting the peace between the Hashemite kingdom of Jordan and Israel.  On Friday they organized a rally to end the July 1994 peace treaty  that was signed by Shimon Peres and Jordan's PM, Abdelsalam al-Majali.  They now want to kick out Israel's ambassador.

 Getting to that peace treaty cost the USA 18.3 billion dollars which Abdelsalam declared was to bring an end to the age of wars and Peres had declared that the moment of peace had arrived.  Even Egypt had welcomed the agreement and Syria just played it cool by ignoring it.  As part of the agreement, Israel established a modern medical center in Amman.

 The Hezbollah of Lebanon obviously was unhappy about it and showed their anger by launching mortar and rocket attacks into the northern Galilee towns where I used to live just 20 minutes before the ceremony.  This had been a historical event of Israel;  signing a 2nd peace treaty with an Arab state.

Then they were able to open their borders by  building several border-crossings for tourists, merchants and workers to travel between.  Israeli tourists visited Jordan, enjoying Petra, a stone-carved Nabatean city which is famous.

Jordanians had been coming into Israel to work daily.  Since 1967, when Jordan attacked Israel along with all their friends and lost, resulting in losing the "West Bank" which they had held illegally since 1948, Israel maintained an OPEN BRIDGES policy with Jordan.  This allowed Arabs from Judea and Samaria to travel to neighboring Arab countries and continue to maintain family ties and for business and education.  Arabs from the West Bank were allowed since 1971 to visit Israel without permits.  Israel encouraged coexistence.

It hadn't been easy because between June 1967 and September 1970 the Jordanian army and Palestinian terrorists worked together to harass Israel.  They shelled Israeli villages in the Jordan Valley and terrorist groups were infiltrating and attacking Israelis.

In September 1970 Civil War occurred in Jordan when the Jordanian army crushed the Palestinian terrorist organization.  Jordan wound up becoming populated by many Palestinians with the King marrying one. They had their BLACK SEPTEMBER when the PLO  threatened to overthrow King Hussein.  Almost 3,400 Palestinians were killed  between the 16th and the 26th, 1970.  PLO members actually fled across the border to surrender to Israeli troops instead of Hussein's army.

Many feel that Jordan is Palestine being so many live there.  King Husayn had said that "there should be the separation of the West Bank from the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan.  Likud, a major political party in Israel has said over and over that Jordan is Palestine.    

The rallies were in 7 cities where people burned Israeli and American flags and chanted, "death, death to Israel," and "the people want an end to Wadi Araba which is the Jordan-Israel peace treaty.

The Westernized King Abdullah II had recently appointed Fayez Tarrawneh as prime minister who was a man who served in this capacity briefly in the late 1990s and was a key figure in making peace with Israel.  He is a man who would still support the 1994 treaty and the people are rebelling now with the teachings  of the Muslim Brotherhood.

They are saying that this rational man is not respecting the Jordanian's wish to end all peace, calls the Muslim Brotherhood, a group our government mistakenly thinks is "moderate,"  This should be proof that they are radical and dangerous.

The Brotherhood's propaganda is that Israel has not followed through with obligations under the treaty like in water sharing.  They're noting Amman's custodianship over holy sites in Jerusalem and access to the Palestinian territories, meaning Jordanians wanting to gain free access into Judea, Samaria, maybe parts of the Golan and East Jerusalem.

Jordan, with  a population of 5,568,565 people of which 95% are Sunni Muslims, hopefully has strong leaders that can squelch such war mongers that are trying to end an 18 year old peace treaty.  The Muslim Brotherhood is doing the very same thing in Egypt by having Mubakak jailed after he and Sadat had kept them down and illegal.  Can people still say that they are moderate and harmless now?

Resource: http://www.timesofisrael.com/thousands-of-jordanians-call-for-end-to-peace-with-israel/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel%E2%80%93Jordan_Treaty_of_Peace
http://www.danielpipes.org/298/is-jordan-palestine
Facts about Israel, Division of Information, Ministry for Foreign Affairs, Jerusalem,  p 50-51
Myths and Facts: a concise record of the Arab-Israeli conflict b Mitchell Bard, Joel Himelfarb

Wednesday, May 02, 2012

Big Brou-ha Over Israel's Participation in NATO Summit

Nadene Goldfoot
Turkey has the chutzpah to object to Israel's being in the future NATO Summit in Chicago.  Is the USA's Secretary of State Hillary Clinton going to let the only reliable and capable ally in the region to be ostracized?  Their reasoning is that NATO-Israel relations can't be normal until Turkey-Israel relations are normalized.  The question I ask is, "How is that ever going to happen?"

This one member out of the 28 nation alliance is being controlling with no doubt an anti-Semitic bent.  Israel has so much to offer the group; insights on strategic developments such as instability in Syria, knowing more about  Iran and their atomic buildup to make nuclear weapons, etc.

Turkey also has said that Israel can't join until their Organization of Islamic Cooperation can also participate. I wonder if they have any idea about how to cooperate?  They were involved in invading Israel's waters with an illegal ship intending to bring who knows what into Gaza and wouldn't allow Israel to check out the ship.  Israel's intentions of checking out ships  was announced way earlier for all.  They screwed things up themselves with Israel and expect deference now from Israel like an apology, etc.   Turkey was a pain in the neck when they were known as the Ottoman Empire and they still are acting like spoiled children.

The American Jewish Committee has already asked our government to lift this sanction and not allow Israel to be ostracized from the group.  Considering that 75% of NATO's budget comes from the USA, one would think that the USA would have more than enough clout.

Obama has made it known that the big topic of the meeting is about Afghanistan. Russia's opposition to Missile Defense Plans is 2nd on the agenda, and last they are going to discuss their own future as so many of the European members come from countries short on money.   Fifty (50) countries will be represented and attending, from Iceland to Korea.

Resource: http://abclocal.go.com/wls/story?section=news/local&id=8645678
Arutz Sheva news@israelnationalnews.com : Israeli Participation in Upcoming NATO Summit? by Rachel Hirshfeld

Tuesday, May 01, 2012

Stalemate Ending of Peace Talks While Gaza Exchanges Fire With Israel

Nadene Goldfoot
Supposedly, though  PA Prime Minister Salam Fayyad was to meet with President Mahmoud Abbas and Prime Minister Netanyahu on the 17th , he did not attend.  Abbas had announced that he would, and seemed to be surprised that he didn't show up.

As it turned out, he wouldn't meet with Netanyahu.  Saeb Erekat, head of the PA negotiating team had told journalists just a few hours before the supposed meeting that he would be there, too.  Erkat had to stand in for Fayyad and was joined by Majed Faraj, PA general intelligence chief.

Netanyahu had his special envoy, Isaac Molho with him and the men talked for one hour 20 minutes.  The time was followed by a joint statement saying they both were committed to achieving peace.  Molho is to meet Abbas in Ramallah in the next 2 weeks and will bring an answer to a letter from the Palestinians about Israel's position on the borders of a future Palestinian state and security arrangements for Israel as part of any peace agreement.  It will no doubt include Israel's expectation that Palestinians recognize the State of Israel.

In the meantime, just 3 hours ago, the IDF and PA terrorists fired at each other on the Gaza border.  One was wounded.  The terrorists fired at the soldiers while they were near the security fence in central Gaza doing routine operational activities of clearing land in the early afternoon along the border.  .

The shooting damaged two armoured cars, so the Israelis answered back.  Israel's military keeps an exclusion zone inside the Gaza Strip along the border and regularly does this chore so that the land is safer and terrorists cannot hide in clumps.

On Tuesday evening, a rocket fired from Gaza and landed in Ashkelon.  This is what they had hoped to prevent.  Things like this that keep on happening.

Resource: http://news.yahoo.com/gaza-militant-killed-israeli-border-firefight-193154283.html
haaretz.com/misc/.../palestinian-delegation-delivers-peace-talks-demands-to-netanyahu-1.424905?trai